Selected Podcast
Helping Victims of Human Trafficking and Other Types of Child Abuse
Human trafficking has been a problem for a long time, but in recent years, experts have changed the way they handle human trafficking cases. Deb Schneider, a licensed social worker at Children’s of Alabama, explains this change and the difference it has made for victims of human trafficking. She also explains how to identify a possible human trafficking victim, and how a center a Children’s is providing hope for victims of all types of abuse.
Featured Speaker:
Deb Schneider, LICSW
Deb Schneider is the executive director of the Children’s Hospital Intervention and Prevention Services (CHIPS) Center at Children’s of Alabama. She’s a licensed social worker, a forensic interviewer, a registered play therapy supervisor, and she has a trauma certificate. She created a sexual abuse prevention education curriculum used in many schools systems. Schneider was a patient at Children's of Alabama her senior year in high school and decided during that hospitalization that she wanted to work at Children's. Thinking she wasn't smart enough to be a doctor or brave enough to be a nurse, she decided she would be a medical social worker. She helped found the CHIPS Center in 1995. Transcription:
Conan Gasque: Welcome to Inside Pediatrics, a podcast brought to you by Children's Hospital of Alabama in Birmingham. I'm Conan Gasque. April is National Child Abuse Prevention Month. And according to data published this year by the US Department of Health and Human Services, about 618,000 children were victims of abuse in 2020. There are many kinds of abuse. Today, we'll discuss a specific type and we'll tell you about a program at Children's of Alabama called the CHIPS Center. It's designed to help children who have faced any type of abuse. I'm joined now by the Executive director of the CHIPS Center, Deb Schneider. Deb is a licensed social worker at Children's of Alabama, a founding member of the CHIPS Center, more specifically called the Children's Hospital Intervention and Prevention Services Center. We'll talk a little bit more about that in just a second. But Deb also has a trauma certificate. She is a forensic interviewer and registered play therapy supervisor. She created a sexual abuse prevention education curriculum used in many school systems. Deb, thanks so much for your time today.
Deb Schneider: Thank you.
Conan Gasque: So let's talk first about the CHIPS Center and what it's all about. As I mentioned, you're a founding member of the CHIPS Center back in 1995. Tell me a little bit about what the focus of the CHIPS Center is and why you and others got this started.
Deb Schneider: Well, we saw a true need here at the hospital for a special way to handle suspected child abuse cases, so we could really focus on the children and the families; see privacy for them, so we're not in the midst of the hospital building, even though we're on the main campus and just address the specific needs of child abuse.
Conan Gasque: So you work with children who have been the victim of various types of abuse and neglect?
Deb Schneider: There's suspected abuse. We see kids with physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotional abuse, and neglect.
Conan Gasque: What is it like for you dealing with children and helping children who have, you know, potentially been through things like this?
Deb Schneider: It is a tough job, but it is our honor to be there. We make sure we take care of each other and we get to see the kids get better, and that's what keeps us going.
Conan Gasque: I imagine it's rewarding when you see success stories.
Deb Schneider: Absolutely. Absolutely. And success to us could be a child that's been having nightmares and is now sleeping through the night or a child that was having trouble in school and they've, you know, made a B+ on their spelling test. So any little happiness, we're going to celebrate that with these kids.
Conan Gasque: And you talk about helping the children, but you mentioned helping the families as well. That's important.
Deb Schneider: Absolutely. The family is just as affected if the non-offending caregivers are also seen at CHIPS and we provide support and education for them as well.
Conan Gasque: So there are a number of different types of child abuse, but the one that we want to talk specifically about today is human trafficking. It is an issue that's been around a long time, but the way it's handled has really changed a lot over the years. Tell me a little bit about that.
Deb Schneider: Well, I've been, like you said, working with CHIPS since 1995, and we would not always look at the children as victims. Just the system in general would also see them as maybe a criminal. And starting around 2018, we just finally woke up and said, you know, "These kids are in a child sexual exploitation, and we need to see them as victims of abuse and look at it that way." The criminals are actually the traffickers and the people that are soliciting to have sex with these children.
Conan Gasque: How frustrating was that pre-2018 dealing with the way that it was handled back then?
Deb Schneider: Very frustrating, and I'm going to even use the word embarrassing, that we just weren't looking at it in a realistic picture. But now, we're educated. We're educating law enforcement, emergency department staff. We're educating people that work in hotels and motels. Any one that we can educate to try to understand human trafficking and child sexual exploitation.
Conan Gasque: So in other words, in the past, you might have someone who is arrested for a certain crime and they were looked at as the criminal themselves, but now it's more of looking at what's up the chain from there as being the bigger picture problem?
Deb Schneider: Absolutely. And that these kids are victims of these people, these perpetrators of abuse.
Conan Gasque: You talk about these perpetrators, how do these criminals lure people into a situation where those people might be trafficked?
Deb Schneider: A lot of kids that are trafficked are runaways. They're actually running away from home, probably because there's abuse taking place there. And they get, you know, on the street, they're in a vulnerable situation and the traffickers approach them, promising them things, shelter, clothing, money. And they get involved with this trafficker and actually kind of get this trauma bond with this person. And then things just keep getting worse and worse and worse. The traffickers also, they'll tell the kids, "You're the one that's going to be in trouble, so you can't report this to anybody." And they're responsible for their food, their clothing, their shelter, so these kids get trapped in these relationships. We also have kids that are trafficked by people that, you know, are family members, trying to, you know, pay the rent, maybe, you know, get their next drug fix or kids that get in relationships and they're promised fame or fortune and then it ends up being in a trafficking situation.
Conan Gasque: So in other words, it starts out as they see this as something they need.
Deb Schneider: Yes.
Conan Gasque: And then, the person who lured them into it takes advantage of them. And it turns into a really bad situation.
Deb Schneider: Absolutely.
Conan Gasque: How challenging is it once someone is in a situation like that to get them out of it?
Deb Schneider: Well, we call it rescued. They have to be rescued. They have to be identified. So that's why we're talking more to emergency department personnel and other professionals that may come in contact with these children. Once they're rescued, sometimes it's very hard for them to leave that trafficking world, because they also had some freedoms that they may not have. Right now, society as a whole, trying to figure out the best place to shelter these kids, it may not be a foster care placement is the perfect place because they do run. So we need specific specially trained people that will work with these children and understand the mental toil that they've been through and a lot of times the physical abuse that they've been through as well.
Conan Gasque: And you can provide that at the CHIPS Center.
Deb Schneider: We do our best. We have a new arm of the CHIPS Center called Sunrise Clinic. And it is specifically designed to work with rescued children that have experienced suspected child sexual exploitation.
Conan Gasque: But before they get to the CHIPS Center, you mentioned about the importance of identifying the situation and trying to rescue them from it. And you talked about educating hotels and motels, law enforcement, emergency services. I guess, providing them with that education helps with that initial identification of the situation.
Deb Schneider: Yes. You might see a child that is with a noncustodial adult that's answering all their questions for them. You might see a child with a tattoo in a kind of unusual place, like the back of the neck. It might look like a barcode or actually have the traffickers name on it. Sometimes it's on the inner thigh. And if you see something like that, or a child that just has a lot of knowledge about sexual issues beyond their years, children that may have burns or bite marks or bruises, anything like that that's just unusual; and you kind of look for the pattern and if you're seeing several things, that should heighten your awareness that this child might be in danger.
Conan Gasque: Do you think that even the average person could potentially notice these things? And what should they do if they do?
Deb Schneider: If they notice it and they think the child is in immediate danger, they need to call 911. If they are just questioning a situation, they can call the National Human Trafficking Hotline 1-888-373-7888.
Conan Gasque: So how does the process work once abuse of any kind is suspected or reported? How does it go from that point to the CHIPS Center getting involved?
Deb Schneider: We can get referrals from schools, law enforcement, families themselves, other medical providers. Anyone that's concerned can call the CHIPS Center and we can sometimes just guide them with education or if we think that child does need to be seen, we would provide as appropriate a forensic medical exam, counseling at the CHIPS Center might be appropriate or, if they live far away, we'll assist that family or child with seeking out counseling. And then, we'll also do prevention education.
Conan Gasque: So when someone is, I guess, a part of the CHIPS Center, when you have someone who is suspected of having been abused in some way, what is the main message that the professionals at the CHIPS Center have for that suspected victim?
Deb Schneider: We want to let them know there's hope and healing. And our physicians tell us after those children have had the medical exams, that's where we start seeing the healing begin. Either they find out their body is A-okay or, if there is a problem, how we're going to help with it, that we're listening to them, that we believe them. And that's where the healing begins.
Conan Gasque: How do you sum up the progress that the CHIPS Center has made since 1995 in terms of being able to make a difference in the lives of people who may have been through these things?
Deb Schneider: Like I said, we see the kids get better. We see families come back to a peaceful situation. We see children that may have felt confused and betrayed now regaining trust and just see them moving forward. And that's what our goal is with these kids.
Conan Gasque: So I guess the important thing to remember is as awful as it is to have been through something like that, there is hope and there is potential recovery.
Deb Schneider: Absolutely. Our community needs to report it, so these kids can get the help or the kids need to tell a safe, trusted adult that they're in a bad or vulnerable situation.
Conan Gasque: Any other resources for people who are interested in learning more about this topic or what people need to know about reporting a potential situation of abuse?
Deb Schneider: If you're going to report, all it takes is a suspicion. You do not have to, you know, investigate. You do not have to prove it. If you suspect something, if your gut feeling, you know, tells you something's not right, you can make a report to your county Local Department of Human Resources. Again, if you can't find that number, law enforcement can give you the number Alabama has a National Children's Advocacy Center. You can look that up on the internet. They have lots of resources on there, or the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children or you can, you know, again, contact the CHIPS Center.
Conan Gasque: Once again, Deb Schneider, executive director and founding member of the CHIPS Center here at Children's of Alabama. Deb, thanks so much for your time.
Deb Schneider: Thank you.
Conan Gasque: Thanks for listening to Inside Pediatrics. You can find more podcasts like this one at childrensal.org/insidepediatrics.
Conan Gasque: Welcome to Inside Pediatrics, a podcast brought to you by Children's Hospital of Alabama in Birmingham. I'm Conan Gasque. April is National Child Abuse Prevention Month. And according to data published this year by the US Department of Health and Human Services, about 618,000 children were victims of abuse in 2020. There are many kinds of abuse. Today, we'll discuss a specific type and we'll tell you about a program at Children's of Alabama called the CHIPS Center. It's designed to help children who have faced any type of abuse. I'm joined now by the Executive director of the CHIPS Center, Deb Schneider. Deb is a licensed social worker at Children's of Alabama, a founding member of the CHIPS Center, more specifically called the Children's Hospital Intervention and Prevention Services Center. We'll talk a little bit more about that in just a second. But Deb also has a trauma certificate. She is a forensic interviewer and registered play therapy supervisor. She created a sexual abuse prevention education curriculum used in many school systems. Deb, thanks so much for your time today.
Deb Schneider: Thank you.
Conan Gasque: So let's talk first about the CHIPS Center and what it's all about. As I mentioned, you're a founding member of the CHIPS Center back in 1995. Tell me a little bit about what the focus of the CHIPS Center is and why you and others got this started.
Deb Schneider: Well, we saw a true need here at the hospital for a special way to handle suspected child abuse cases, so we could really focus on the children and the families; see privacy for them, so we're not in the midst of the hospital building, even though we're on the main campus and just address the specific needs of child abuse.
Conan Gasque: So you work with children who have been the victim of various types of abuse and neglect?
Deb Schneider: There's suspected abuse. We see kids with physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotional abuse, and neglect.
Conan Gasque: What is it like for you dealing with children and helping children who have, you know, potentially been through things like this?
Deb Schneider: It is a tough job, but it is our honor to be there. We make sure we take care of each other and we get to see the kids get better, and that's what keeps us going.
Conan Gasque: I imagine it's rewarding when you see success stories.
Deb Schneider: Absolutely. Absolutely. And success to us could be a child that's been having nightmares and is now sleeping through the night or a child that was having trouble in school and they've, you know, made a B+ on their spelling test. So any little happiness, we're going to celebrate that with these kids.
Conan Gasque: And you talk about helping the children, but you mentioned helping the families as well. That's important.
Deb Schneider: Absolutely. The family is just as affected if the non-offending caregivers are also seen at CHIPS and we provide support and education for them as well.
Conan Gasque: So there are a number of different types of child abuse, but the one that we want to talk specifically about today is human trafficking. It is an issue that's been around a long time, but the way it's handled has really changed a lot over the years. Tell me a little bit about that.
Deb Schneider: Well, I've been, like you said, working with CHIPS since 1995, and we would not always look at the children as victims. Just the system in general would also see them as maybe a criminal. And starting around 2018, we just finally woke up and said, you know, "These kids are in a child sexual exploitation, and we need to see them as victims of abuse and look at it that way." The criminals are actually the traffickers and the people that are soliciting to have sex with these children.
Conan Gasque: How frustrating was that pre-2018 dealing with the way that it was handled back then?
Deb Schneider: Very frustrating, and I'm going to even use the word embarrassing, that we just weren't looking at it in a realistic picture. But now, we're educated. We're educating law enforcement, emergency department staff. We're educating people that work in hotels and motels. Any one that we can educate to try to understand human trafficking and child sexual exploitation.
Conan Gasque: So in other words, in the past, you might have someone who is arrested for a certain crime and they were looked at as the criminal themselves, but now it's more of looking at what's up the chain from there as being the bigger picture problem?
Deb Schneider: Absolutely. And that these kids are victims of these people, these perpetrators of abuse.
Conan Gasque: You talk about these perpetrators, how do these criminals lure people into a situation where those people might be trafficked?
Deb Schneider: A lot of kids that are trafficked are runaways. They're actually running away from home, probably because there's abuse taking place there. And they get, you know, on the street, they're in a vulnerable situation and the traffickers approach them, promising them things, shelter, clothing, money. And they get involved with this trafficker and actually kind of get this trauma bond with this person. And then things just keep getting worse and worse and worse. The traffickers also, they'll tell the kids, "You're the one that's going to be in trouble, so you can't report this to anybody." And they're responsible for their food, their clothing, their shelter, so these kids get trapped in these relationships. We also have kids that are trafficked by people that, you know, are family members, trying to, you know, pay the rent, maybe, you know, get their next drug fix or kids that get in relationships and they're promised fame or fortune and then it ends up being in a trafficking situation.
Conan Gasque: So in other words, it starts out as they see this as something they need.
Deb Schneider: Yes.
Conan Gasque: And then, the person who lured them into it takes advantage of them. And it turns into a really bad situation.
Deb Schneider: Absolutely.
Conan Gasque: How challenging is it once someone is in a situation like that to get them out of it?
Deb Schneider: Well, we call it rescued. They have to be rescued. They have to be identified. So that's why we're talking more to emergency department personnel and other professionals that may come in contact with these children. Once they're rescued, sometimes it's very hard for them to leave that trafficking world, because they also had some freedoms that they may not have. Right now, society as a whole, trying to figure out the best place to shelter these kids, it may not be a foster care placement is the perfect place because they do run. So we need specific specially trained people that will work with these children and understand the mental toil that they've been through and a lot of times the physical abuse that they've been through as well.
Conan Gasque: And you can provide that at the CHIPS Center.
Deb Schneider: We do our best. We have a new arm of the CHIPS Center called Sunrise Clinic. And it is specifically designed to work with rescued children that have experienced suspected child sexual exploitation.
Conan Gasque: But before they get to the CHIPS Center, you mentioned about the importance of identifying the situation and trying to rescue them from it. And you talked about educating hotels and motels, law enforcement, emergency services. I guess, providing them with that education helps with that initial identification of the situation.
Deb Schneider: Yes. You might see a child that is with a noncustodial adult that's answering all their questions for them. You might see a child with a tattoo in a kind of unusual place, like the back of the neck. It might look like a barcode or actually have the traffickers name on it. Sometimes it's on the inner thigh. And if you see something like that, or a child that just has a lot of knowledge about sexual issues beyond their years, children that may have burns or bite marks or bruises, anything like that that's just unusual; and you kind of look for the pattern and if you're seeing several things, that should heighten your awareness that this child might be in danger.
Conan Gasque: Do you think that even the average person could potentially notice these things? And what should they do if they do?
Deb Schneider: If they notice it and they think the child is in immediate danger, they need to call 911. If they are just questioning a situation, they can call the National Human Trafficking Hotline 1-888-373-7888.
Conan Gasque: So how does the process work once abuse of any kind is suspected or reported? How does it go from that point to the CHIPS Center getting involved?
Deb Schneider: We can get referrals from schools, law enforcement, families themselves, other medical providers. Anyone that's concerned can call the CHIPS Center and we can sometimes just guide them with education or if we think that child does need to be seen, we would provide as appropriate a forensic medical exam, counseling at the CHIPS Center might be appropriate or, if they live far away, we'll assist that family or child with seeking out counseling. And then, we'll also do prevention education.
Conan Gasque: So when someone is, I guess, a part of the CHIPS Center, when you have someone who is suspected of having been abused in some way, what is the main message that the professionals at the CHIPS Center have for that suspected victim?
Deb Schneider: We want to let them know there's hope and healing. And our physicians tell us after those children have had the medical exams, that's where we start seeing the healing begin. Either they find out their body is A-okay or, if there is a problem, how we're going to help with it, that we're listening to them, that we believe them. And that's where the healing begins.
Conan Gasque: How do you sum up the progress that the CHIPS Center has made since 1995 in terms of being able to make a difference in the lives of people who may have been through these things?
Deb Schneider: Like I said, we see the kids get better. We see families come back to a peaceful situation. We see children that may have felt confused and betrayed now regaining trust and just see them moving forward. And that's what our goal is with these kids.
Conan Gasque: So I guess the important thing to remember is as awful as it is to have been through something like that, there is hope and there is potential recovery.
Deb Schneider: Absolutely. Our community needs to report it, so these kids can get the help or the kids need to tell a safe, trusted adult that they're in a bad or vulnerable situation.
Conan Gasque: Any other resources for people who are interested in learning more about this topic or what people need to know about reporting a potential situation of abuse?
Deb Schneider: If you're going to report, all it takes is a suspicion. You do not have to, you know, investigate. You do not have to prove it. If you suspect something, if your gut feeling, you know, tells you something's not right, you can make a report to your county Local Department of Human Resources. Again, if you can't find that number, law enforcement can give you the number Alabama has a National Children's Advocacy Center. You can look that up on the internet. They have lots of resources on there, or the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children or you can, you know, again, contact the CHIPS Center.
Conan Gasque: Once again, Deb Schneider, executive director and founding member of the CHIPS Center here at Children's of Alabama. Deb, thanks so much for your time.
Deb Schneider: Thank you.
Conan Gasque: Thanks for listening to Inside Pediatrics. You can find more podcasts like this one at childrensal.org/insidepediatrics.