Is death a taboo topic in your home?
How would you approach discussing death with a young child?
If you’re like most adults in our society, it can be very uncomfortable addressing this subject.
The difficult situation of dealing with death is often exacerbated when young children are involved.
Today we have with us Carri Sullivan, Allina Health Hospice grief counselor to talk about how we can help our children cope with loss, death and grief.
Selected Podcast
Helping Children Cope With Loss, Death and Grief
Featured Speaker:
Carri Sullivan, MA, LPC - Grief Counselor with Allina Hospice
Carri Sullivan is a Grief Counselor with Allina Hospice. Carri received her master of arts degree in counseling and psychotherapy from Adler Graduate School and is board certified as a licensed professional counselor by the state of Minnesota. Carri is passionate about her work with bereaved families. She especially enjoys facilitating support groups for grieving individuals as well as providing one on one counseling to bereaved clients. Carri is married with three children and delights in quality family time on the soccer field and leading her daughter’s Girl Scout troop. Transcription:
Melanie Cole (Host): Is death a taboo topic in your home? How would you approach discussing death with a young child? If you’re like most adults in our society, it can be very uncomfortable addressing this subject. The difficult situation of dealing with death is often exacerbated when young children are involved. My guest today is Carri Sullivan. She’s a grief counselor with Allina Health Hospice. Welcome to the show, Carri. So, what can parents or guardians do to help prepare a child for loss? How do you help them understand what is about to happen? And is it helpful to visit the dying person?
Carri Sullivan (Guest): Well, first and foremost, absolutely, it is a difficult topic to talk about in general. But certainly, when there’s imminent or recent death, I think the most important thing to remember is that we really set the tone for grief. If we are sending messages that questions are okay and that it’s safe to talk about, then the child is going to really be able to have a much more clear dialogue with us about that. Also, if we set the tone that it’s not okay, we’re encouraging kids to try and get their answers met elsewhere, out in the community, from their peers, and we know that that’s a risk because we don't of course know what kind of answers they’d be getting.
Melanie: So when we’re explaining death in children’s terms, what should we be saying? Do we speak in little kids’ speak? Do we speak to them as adults? How do we impart what we’re trying to say?
Carri: First of all, I think the thing is we want to be honest and using simple, clear, concise words. It doesn't have to be kids’ speak. I think, actually, honest speak. For instance, we want to avoid statements like, “Daddy went on a long trip,” because that would maybe suggest that daddy has abandoned them. Using really clear, concise language with word choices such as, “Daddy died,” that means that his heart stopped working, that means that his body stopped working and his body died. That’s very clear. And kids understand clear. They might have a lot of questions, but it really is the truth, and kids recognize when they’re being lied to or when they’re being told the honest truth.
Melanie: How are they different? As kids age, how do they accept what’s happening, whether it’s illness or death, when they’re little kids versus when they’re teenagers?
Carri: Sure. The truth is, nobody is too young to grieve, and so I say that because oftentimes we suggest that younger children might not have such an impact. Well, that’s just not true. There’s a saying that’s been said, “If you’re old enough to love, you’re old enough to grieve.” So, from infancy through adulthood, we’re all prone to that, and that’s a normal response. Of course, young ages, infant, toddler ages, even though they don't actually understand the meaning or significance of death per se, they do understand separation. Think of separation anxiety between a baby and a mother. They recognize pain and stress and changes in their home environment. Preschoolers, of course, it’s all about them. They’re very self-focused. But they understand when things are different, and they understand more of the concept of death. They might not understand the permanence of death though. I have heard children say things like at grandpa’s funeral, “That was very sad. Well, now, is grandpa going to be at my birthday party?” So not understanding what really happens there, but they do understand the sadness. A little bit older, when you get into the elementary years, more than anything, I think at that age, kids are really fearful of abandonment, and most importantly, it’s the questions of who’s going to take care of me, am I safe. And also, is this something I can catch? Can I catch that the way we can catch a cold? Moving into early adolescence, we’ve got preadolescent age, where they really have the cognitive understanding and ability to really get what death is and that it’s a final process. But they’re also interested in learning more about the physical and biological components of death. But they’re probably still more focused on the practical issues. So now what, what’s going to happen then? And then of course, moving into teen years and into early adulthood, there’s a much more cognitive comprehension in line with adults’ understanding also of just it’s inevitable, death is irreversible. But that age group specifically tends to want to perhaps mourn in privacy more. And most kids that age have really not had peers that have experienced significant loss, so I think there’s many questions that arise out of am I normal and my friends just don't get it. And so, really wanting to have a sense of normalcy and control, that’s a very, very normal—I think healthy—response for kids.
Melanie: When is it that the guardian/parent seeks outside help? When do you feel that with this grief, your child needs somebody else besides just you to talk to?
Carri: First of all, we have to just make note that parental loss for children certainly increases risk factors—for many mental health diagnoses but depression, anxiety, even increased fear or lowering self-esteem, like I mentioned about the normalcy. But it’s really just important to be vigilant and observant of how our own kids are doing and remembering that grief is unique to each of us. I think when we’re concerned about a child, I would say it never hurts to seek professional support, even if it’s just reassurance for us as parents that we’re doing the best that we can. And sometimes just even a couple of sessions with a grief counselor can really help parents learn some coping skills perhaps, or else just affirm what they’re doing with their kids and helping them identify ways to support their children the best that they can. But of course, in addition to that, if there’s a history of depression or a suicidal ideation or chemical dependency, or if there’s risk of harm to themselves or others, those are all very, very important times to get outside support.
Melanie: What are some of your best tips to give a parent who has a child that’s dealing with grief?
Carri: First and foremost, to listen. Listen, listen. Affirm that child. Give them the opportunity to tell their story, express their emotions, even if it’s over and over again. Processing death takes a lot of time. And remembering that our word choices matter. We don't want to minimize their fears. We want to help them understand to the best that they can and to understand that this isn’t about them, this is not their fault. There’s a number of different ways to be able to put ourselves out there and be vulnerable ourselves, like I mentioned earlier. We set the tone for the safety of talking about death with our own vulnerability. So, doing things as simple as sitting down and doing an art project with your child, perhaps making a memory box for the loved one who’s died and putting either mementos or pictures or things like that in that box and having a safe place to contain that; helping the children remember, continuing to remember birthdays or telling stories about their loved one who died or keeping any special possessions that they might have received from that person; and encouraging them to also have fun and have happy times. So often we’re focused on sadness and tears, which are huge and very important and they happen, but we also want to make sure that they have permission to laugh and share some of the funny stories. And most important, I think, is just remembering grief is hard. It’s hard for us as adults, and it’s certainly hard for children.
Melanie: In just the last minute, Carri, if you would, tell parents listening how they can help their children dealing with grief while dealing with this grief themselves, because that’s a really important part. And what type of grief support do you offer at Allina Health?
Carri: Most importantly, we do need to care for ourselves before we can be present for others. So, seeking out support groups for yourselves, support groups for your children, being able to relate with others in similar situations is so helpful. Also, one-on-one support or counseling, family counseling. And then even just in the home, recognizing that when we don't know what we need, our children are often in that same boat. So it’s potentially a hug or just talking or just spending some time together as well as utilizing those healthy habits we all know about—eating and exercising and having a bedtime schedule, et cetera. That all just help with the feelings of safety. And the support that we offer at Allina, we offer some amazing services. We offer up to 13 months of bereavement follow-up. For every family who’s had a loved one die in the Allina Health Hospice Program, we offer one-on-one counseling, we offer family counseling. We’re available to families and loved ones of our hospice patients. We also have numerous support group offering, and we have a community resource available to anybody. And that is a phone line and also a website. It’s the Grief Resources Line, and anybody can access that in order to find local support or resources. The phone number for that is 651-628-1752, and online at allinahealth.org/griefresources.
Melanie: Thank you so much. It’s really great information. You’re listening to the WELLcast with Allina Health. For more information, you can go to allinahealth.org. That’s allinahealth.org. This is Melanie Cole. Thanks so much for listening.
Melanie Cole (Host): Is death a taboo topic in your home? How would you approach discussing death with a young child? If you’re like most adults in our society, it can be very uncomfortable addressing this subject. The difficult situation of dealing with death is often exacerbated when young children are involved. My guest today is Carri Sullivan. She’s a grief counselor with Allina Health Hospice. Welcome to the show, Carri. So, what can parents or guardians do to help prepare a child for loss? How do you help them understand what is about to happen? And is it helpful to visit the dying person?
Carri Sullivan (Guest): Well, first and foremost, absolutely, it is a difficult topic to talk about in general. But certainly, when there’s imminent or recent death, I think the most important thing to remember is that we really set the tone for grief. If we are sending messages that questions are okay and that it’s safe to talk about, then the child is going to really be able to have a much more clear dialogue with us about that. Also, if we set the tone that it’s not okay, we’re encouraging kids to try and get their answers met elsewhere, out in the community, from their peers, and we know that that’s a risk because we don't of course know what kind of answers they’d be getting.
Melanie: So when we’re explaining death in children’s terms, what should we be saying? Do we speak in little kids’ speak? Do we speak to them as adults? How do we impart what we’re trying to say?
Carri: First of all, I think the thing is we want to be honest and using simple, clear, concise words. It doesn't have to be kids’ speak. I think, actually, honest speak. For instance, we want to avoid statements like, “Daddy went on a long trip,” because that would maybe suggest that daddy has abandoned them. Using really clear, concise language with word choices such as, “Daddy died,” that means that his heart stopped working, that means that his body stopped working and his body died. That’s very clear. And kids understand clear. They might have a lot of questions, but it really is the truth, and kids recognize when they’re being lied to or when they’re being told the honest truth.
Melanie: How are they different? As kids age, how do they accept what’s happening, whether it’s illness or death, when they’re little kids versus when they’re teenagers?
Carri: Sure. The truth is, nobody is too young to grieve, and so I say that because oftentimes we suggest that younger children might not have such an impact. Well, that’s just not true. There’s a saying that’s been said, “If you’re old enough to love, you’re old enough to grieve.” So, from infancy through adulthood, we’re all prone to that, and that’s a normal response. Of course, young ages, infant, toddler ages, even though they don't actually understand the meaning or significance of death per se, they do understand separation. Think of separation anxiety between a baby and a mother. They recognize pain and stress and changes in their home environment. Preschoolers, of course, it’s all about them. They’re very self-focused. But they understand when things are different, and they understand more of the concept of death. They might not understand the permanence of death though. I have heard children say things like at grandpa’s funeral, “That was very sad. Well, now, is grandpa going to be at my birthday party?” So not understanding what really happens there, but they do understand the sadness. A little bit older, when you get into the elementary years, more than anything, I think at that age, kids are really fearful of abandonment, and most importantly, it’s the questions of who’s going to take care of me, am I safe. And also, is this something I can catch? Can I catch that the way we can catch a cold? Moving into early adolescence, we’ve got preadolescent age, where they really have the cognitive understanding and ability to really get what death is and that it’s a final process. But they’re also interested in learning more about the physical and biological components of death. But they’re probably still more focused on the practical issues. So now what, what’s going to happen then? And then of course, moving into teen years and into early adulthood, there’s a much more cognitive comprehension in line with adults’ understanding also of just it’s inevitable, death is irreversible. But that age group specifically tends to want to perhaps mourn in privacy more. And most kids that age have really not had peers that have experienced significant loss, so I think there’s many questions that arise out of am I normal and my friends just don't get it. And so, really wanting to have a sense of normalcy and control, that’s a very, very normal—I think healthy—response for kids.
Melanie: When is it that the guardian/parent seeks outside help? When do you feel that with this grief, your child needs somebody else besides just you to talk to?
Carri: First of all, we have to just make note that parental loss for children certainly increases risk factors—for many mental health diagnoses but depression, anxiety, even increased fear or lowering self-esteem, like I mentioned about the normalcy. But it’s really just important to be vigilant and observant of how our own kids are doing and remembering that grief is unique to each of us. I think when we’re concerned about a child, I would say it never hurts to seek professional support, even if it’s just reassurance for us as parents that we’re doing the best that we can. And sometimes just even a couple of sessions with a grief counselor can really help parents learn some coping skills perhaps, or else just affirm what they’re doing with their kids and helping them identify ways to support their children the best that they can. But of course, in addition to that, if there’s a history of depression or a suicidal ideation or chemical dependency, or if there’s risk of harm to themselves or others, those are all very, very important times to get outside support.
Melanie: What are some of your best tips to give a parent who has a child that’s dealing with grief?
Carri: First and foremost, to listen. Listen, listen. Affirm that child. Give them the opportunity to tell their story, express their emotions, even if it’s over and over again. Processing death takes a lot of time. And remembering that our word choices matter. We don't want to minimize their fears. We want to help them understand to the best that they can and to understand that this isn’t about them, this is not their fault. There’s a number of different ways to be able to put ourselves out there and be vulnerable ourselves, like I mentioned earlier. We set the tone for the safety of talking about death with our own vulnerability. So, doing things as simple as sitting down and doing an art project with your child, perhaps making a memory box for the loved one who’s died and putting either mementos or pictures or things like that in that box and having a safe place to contain that; helping the children remember, continuing to remember birthdays or telling stories about their loved one who died or keeping any special possessions that they might have received from that person; and encouraging them to also have fun and have happy times. So often we’re focused on sadness and tears, which are huge and very important and they happen, but we also want to make sure that they have permission to laugh and share some of the funny stories. And most important, I think, is just remembering grief is hard. It’s hard for us as adults, and it’s certainly hard for children.
Melanie: In just the last minute, Carri, if you would, tell parents listening how they can help their children dealing with grief while dealing with this grief themselves, because that’s a really important part. And what type of grief support do you offer at Allina Health?
Carri: Most importantly, we do need to care for ourselves before we can be present for others. So, seeking out support groups for yourselves, support groups for your children, being able to relate with others in similar situations is so helpful. Also, one-on-one support or counseling, family counseling. And then even just in the home, recognizing that when we don't know what we need, our children are often in that same boat. So it’s potentially a hug or just talking or just spending some time together as well as utilizing those healthy habits we all know about—eating and exercising and having a bedtime schedule, et cetera. That all just help with the feelings of safety. And the support that we offer at Allina, we offer some amazing services. We offer up to 13 months of bereavement follow-up. For every family who’s had a loved one die in the Allina Health Hospice Program, we offer one-on-one counseling, we offer family counseling. We’re available to families and loved ones of our hospice patients. We also have numerous support group offering, and we have a community resource available to anybody. And that is a phone line and also a website. It’s the Grief Resources Line, and anybody can access that in order to find local support or resources. The phone number for that is 651-628-1752, and online at allinahealth.org/griefresources.
Melanie: Thank you so much. It’s really great information. You’re listening to the WELLcast with Allina Health. For more information, you can go to allinahealth.org. That’s allinahealth.org. This is Melanie Cole. Thanks so much for listening.