Transcription:

Melanie Cole (Host):  Welcome to Stoughton Health Talk. I'm Melanie Cole, and we're doing a series on forgiveness. And today we're discussing the role of forgiveness in suicide prevention and recovery. Joining me in this series is Tim Markle. He's the Founder of Forgiveness Factor and an Instructor at Stoughton Health and a Contributor to the International Forgiveness Institute. Tim, as I said in my intro, this is really such an important series that we're doing together. So, let's talk about suicide and what a difficult topic. Can forgiveness, help somebody step back from suicide? Can it help family and friends who've been hurt by a completed suicide? Where does forgiveness fit into this unimaginable picture?

Tim Markle MA; MA C/S (Guest): I very much agree that this is one of those topics in life that is, unthinkable. We don't want to think about it. It's painful to think about. And when someone goes through the action of killing themselves, it's very hard. And very painful to recover from it. It leaves an impression on our lives in a way that other things don't. It's a very unique experience.

And part of that unique experience is trying to figure out how did that young person, how did that adult, how did they get to that point where not living was the better choice than living? Where forgiveness can come in is what we see if you look at the interpersonal theory of suicide, is you find that people who choose to commit suicide perceive themselves as a burden to others. They feel like everybody around them would be better off if they weren't there. That somehow the absence of them would make other people's lives better, which makes no sense to those of us who are looking at their life. Because they're a vital part of our life, but they see themselves as a burden. At the same time, there's this sense of thwarted belonging, that they don't feel they belong.

And so through working forgiveness, we can come to the realization that I am not a burden. That I can forgive people that have hurt me. I can forgive myself for the mistakes I made. And as I start to flex those forgiveness muscles, as I start to replace the negative actions with positive actions, then I all of the sudden start to see the possibilities that are inside of me, is I'm no longer stuck in the cycle of life is horrible. I respond to it horribly. Therefore it's only to get more horrible. I break that cycle. And say, yes, I've been hurt, but I'm going to deal with this hurt. I could forgive instead of resent.

I can offer mercy instead of judgment, and that can make us see ourselves in a new way. It can also work against that thwarted belongingness. As part of forgiveness, we take a look at what does it mean to be human. And we begin to realize that we have a lot more in common with each other than we thought we did. And we look at the fact that everybody gets hurt. Everybody struggles. I'm not alone in this struggling. Other people have made it. I can do it too. Other people have forgiven. I can forgive as well. And so part of the work for the person considering suicide is to look around at examples of forgiveness, at examples of mercy.

Beginning to get out of the mindset that all there is, is the blackness, the negative, because that's not true. But we get into this mode where that's what we feel it is. And then for the person who, they are recovering from a completed suicide that someone has gone through and killed themselves. Well, I'll reach back to my own experience as well, Melanie is the end of my freshman year of college, I had two good friends who, who chose to die within three weeks of each other. And it's one of the things that actively led to my spiral downward, if you would, into my own addiction. One of the things that I had to do was I had to come to forgive their action.

And that was really hard to do because I knew they were hurting. And so, I almost felt like I was betraying them in a way, but it was one of those healthy things that I could do was to look at what they had done, admit that they had hurt me and to forgive them for their actions. It was a very healing step in my own journey.

Host: Wow. I would imagine it is. And yet, I don't see how you were able to do that. I think that for the family members and loved ones of someone that has completed suicide, this might be one of the more difficult things there are to do in life, because we think to ourselves, I could have helped or rationally, they didn't need to do this. So, while you're speaking about us forgiving someone who has completed suicide, what about then forgiving ourselves for letting them do it? For thinking that we are to blame or taking that guilt or saying we didn't do enough? Why didn't I see the signs? How can we ever forgive ourselves for something someone else has done?

Tim: That is such a good question. And it's the painful question. Because that is one of the areas I got stuck with one of my friends because I knew that she was struggling and I knew that I could have been a better friend. But I chose to reinvent my own life. And sort of left her behind and then all of a sudden she was gone.

So, part of my journey of forgiveness, of forgiving myself was that, yeah, I could have done better, but she made her choice. I can't control another person. I can't control their actions. And as much as I try to understand them, I may never know the depth of the hurt that's in them. So, I take responsibility for the parts of life that I can. I take responsibility for the fact that yes, I could have written her more. I could have been a better friend. But I did not make the decision to die. That was her choice. And so part of forgiveness is forgiving myself for not being, I guess, part of it comes down to how do you forgive yourself for not being perfect?

And the answer is we're never going to be perfect. And if that's the thermometer, if that's the measure, that we're going to hold ourselves up against, then we're never going to be able to forgive ourselves because we're never going to be perfect. And so part of the work of forgiveness is realizing that we have limitations, that we are going to make mistakes, but we're more than those mistakes that at the same time, that I could see, I didn't write her enough.

I know that I had years before spending with her that brought her joy, that brought her love, that brought her acceptance and that I was an important part of the life that she did have. It's not always good or bad. I didn't totally fail someone. I helped them live and I was there as best as I could be for them. It's one of the ways that I've learned that I've had to approach when I have let other people down that I've had to look and say, yes, I will take responsibility for what's mine, but I cannot take responsibility for another person.

Host: This is such an interesting topic and there are so many ways that we can use forgiveness. And this, out of our whole series, seems to me to be one of the hardest to grasp or to actually act upon. So, I'd like for you to give us some red flags that you know about for suicide and kind of summarize for us exactly how we can start the process of forgiveness for someone or for ourselves when suicide has been contemplated or completed.

Tim: So, one of the things that I look for when I'm talking to people is that sense of, I don't want to be here anymore and I'm a burden and I help them figure out that no, they are special. They are unique. They are irreplaceable. Some of the tenants of forgiveness that everybody is unique, special, and irreplaceable. And helping them realize that in themselves is one of the ways that we can help prevent. And then at the other end, it goes back to that it's hard. It's painful. It's sucks. But we can either deal with the reality of the pain or we could push it away. We can hide it. We could try to run away from it, or we can look at it and work through it.

Forgiveness gives us a way to work through the pain instead of trying to numb the pain. And so I would look at somebody who is, trying to numb, trying to run away, who hasn't seemed to move on and say, okay, let's maybe consider forgiveness therapy, as an option.

Host: So now last thoughts in this whole entire series, Tim, on what you would like listeners to take away from this series on forgiveness and I'd like your very best advice on how we can start forgiving ourselves, others and really how this all ties together for better mental health.

Tim: I believe one of the keys is to acknowledge that right now, we live in a world that is very divided and that wants us to go to the negative and we have to start with a mindset of I'm not going to go there. I will actively seek out mercy. I will actively seek out acts of love. I will actively look for forgiveness and I will actively look for ways where I can show mercy, love and forgiveness. So that forgiveness starts to be real. It's not just a concept that's out there, but it starts to be an option for us to engage in, in our lives. And then we begin to look rehumanization. If we find ourselves writing someone off, we have dehumanized them. We have decided that they are not human anymore. They're not worth it. Somehow, they become subhuman.

That is dangerous. Because then we don't have any responsibility for how we have to treat them. And we also take away their responsibility for acting like a human. And so, the sense of rehumanization, that everybody is special, unique, and irreplaceable is one of the starting foundational points of learning to forgive people. Looking at people with different eyes, new eyes, not just in the negative, not just as monsters, but seeing them in a new way, and that goes to us as well. What are the thoughts that we are telling ourselves? What is our negative self-talk going? How many times a day do we tell ourselves that we've screwed up and that we're failures? We need to change that. We need to acknowledge that we too are special, unique, and irreplaceable, and that we have something to bring to this world that nobody else can bring and forgiveness can give us a way to uncover that.

Host: Beautifully said, Tim. And what an important series we've done together. And the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 1-800-273-8255 or 1-800-273-TALK. Or you can text talk to 741-1741 if you know someone in need, or if you yourself are having thoughts of self-harm. That concludes this episode and indeed this series on forgiveness with Stoughton Health Talk. Please visit our This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. or forgivenessfactor.org for more information. Please share these shows, share this series with your friends and family, because I think we all need to learn these lessons of forgiveness and positivity so that we can help each other through some tough times.

I'm Melanie Cole. Thanks for listening.