Transcription:
How to Talk to Your Child About Racism

Melanie Cole (Host):  There’s no handbook for your child’s health but we do have a podcast featuring world class clinical and research physicians covering everything from your child’s allergies to zinc levels. Welcome to Kids Health Cast by Weill Cornell Medicine. I’m Melanie Cole and our topic today is how to speak to your kids about racism in America. And joining me is Dr. Stephanie Cherestal. She’s a Post-Doctoral Fellow in Clinical Psychology at Weill Cornell Medicine. Dr. Cherestal, I’m so glad to have you with us and what a great topic. Such an important time to have this discussion with so much happening. It can be such confusing time for kids. How do kids process these protests and police brutality, the race issues that we’re seeing all over the country today and while you’re answering that, social media has made this whole issue easier to follow. On the news, kids are a little bit more worldly. They can see things that are going on in other countries. Tell us a little bit how you feel that social media especially for our kids has enlightened them or frightened them in regards to what we’re seeing in the news right now.

Stephanie Cherestal, PhD (Guest):  The way that kids are processing witnessing these protests and exposure to news of police brutality really varies based a lot around age, and backgrounds but generally, younger children, so children before they reach school age, they have a difficult time with abstract thinking. So, kids at this age really can’t understand the more complexities around police brutality but they can understand as they look at the news that people are angry and they’re angry because they haven’t been treated fairly by the police and by so many other people. And that these protests are a way for people to stand up and say, things aren’t – this isn’t right, things need to change.

And now as children get older, and increasingly able to think abstractly as they reach their more adolescent or school age; they are increasingly able to understand the painful history that this country has had with black people. From the times of slavery through Jim Crowe laws to what we’re currently seeing in minority communities around police brutality. So, they are increasingly able to understand as they get older and the way that they process really varies and changes over time.

Now the question about social media is a really good one. It’s really changed so much. Children nowadays are absorbing the news and media in ways that are very different than they did in my generation growing up and certainly the generation that came before mine. Exposure to the news and frequency of social media use, you know that also tends to vary with age, with older kids tending to be much more exposed on a more regular basis. But as a whole, social media has really allowed young people access to news and current events almost instantaneously.

Now this can and unfortunately sometimes does evoke anxiety in a lot of children and we also have a potential problem of the spread of misinformation through social media platforms as just something that we run into and have to keep an eye out for. But at the same time, social media has also helped children learn and become aware of so many issues surrounding race that many people in previous generations were able to remain ignorant of for a very long time. Social media allows kids to access calls to protest, provides avenues for what they can do to try to evoke change and it allows them to feel like they have a voice in a way that kids never really had before. So, I think it can – that exposure to social media and really just being connected in that way, I think it can cause anxiety and at the same time, it can help our kids feel more educated and more empowered to do something.

Host:  I couldn’t agree more, and we’ve seen that with youth movements. I mean Barack Obama said the youth have led every great movement in time. And from the Parkland kids to Black Lives Matter to all of these movements, the youth have been so involved. They’ve wanted to be involved. So, when you’re telling us when and how parents should have these conversations with their kids, what are some of the bigger stumbling blocks in talking about race with our kids and tell us how the struggles are different in black and non-black families when we are discussing race.

Dr. Cherestal:  I think there are so many stumbling blocks that parents face when talking to children about race and police brutality and I think one of the biggest stumbling blocks is learning to manage your own anxiety and discomfort around having conversations of that nature. It can be really, really challenging and I think a lot of parents also struggle with fear in that they are going to say the wrong thing, that they are going to frighten their child or simply that they are not educated enough to engage in a conversation like that. And I think a really important thing that parents can do is be open about that concern and admit that you are still learning and that you can learn more and model for your kids that there are ways that you can educate yourself so that you can have conversations of this nature and not be afraid to do that.

As much as parents can teach and model for their children, that we can learn from our mistakes, that we don’t always have to be perfect, that we can show up to conversations of this nature imperfectly and still engage in it, I think that can be really, really helpful. But I think of course that there are different stumbling blocks between black and white families. I think a lot of white families again, fear saying the wrong thing, not being educated enough and worry about making their children more anxious than they otherwise have to be. And I think for black families, that’s certainly a concern as well. On top of this additional concern that not having those conversations can feel like a matter of life and death. For a lot of black families, it feels so important to have conversations with your children around police brutality but also more generally around how black children are oftentimes perceived as a threat based on how they look. And of course, this impacts police brutality but affects them in every aspect of their lives.

So, for a lot of black families, it feels crucial to have conversations around police brutality and how to really protect yourself as a black child. And it feels as though it’s something that can’t wait. I think of Tamir Rice who was shot by police at the age of 12 in 2014 and so many black parents found themselves struck and still find themselves struck with worry that that could be their child. And I know that they feel this pressure to teach their children how to interact with police safely. How to minimize their risk of being perceived as a threat despite how unfair that is. And they feel that they have to have that conversation as soon as their children can really understand and that is something that they’re facing as a real concern around when they should bring these conversations up with their kids.

Host:  Such a good point and as these conversations are ones that black families have probably had to have for generations, really, as you said, if they’re fearful for their children, even just going out to play, and if we’re looking at parents trying to have this discussion and the words because that’s what I’d like you center on; the words that we can use and certainly point out if you are a parent in a family, a non-black family, a white family, who has not felt marginalized, Dr. Cherestal, and to me this is such an important point. Give us the words we can use to start these discussions if we have never really felt it. We can educate ourselves. We can teach our kids empathy and compassion, but what can we tell them to get them to understand this struggle?

Dr. Cherestal:  I think when it comes to black families trying to navigate these conversations, we really want to stick to as many facts as possible in terms of how they can concretely navigate police encounters in a way that increases their likelihood of staying safe as much as possible. So, again, sticking to the facts. If they are approached by police, ask for their parents. Keeps your hands visible. Avoid sudden movements. Things like that convey that information in a way that is straightforward but then also ask their kids how are you feeling about this. Are you feeling afraid. You know as a person of color myself; I know how important it is to have open conversations around fear and for parents to be able to validate that in their own children.

And certainly when it comes to white families, how can you speak to your children in a way that helps them develop empathy for minority children and minority people generally when they haven’t experienced that marginalization themselves. I think it can be challenging but for parents, as much as you can draw on your experience trying to teach your child to empathize with anyone who is different from them. I know a lot of parents from a very young age teach their children to share, right? They teach their children about charity and giving back to the less fortunate. And what it could be like to walk in the shoes of someone that they haven’t had the direct life experience of. To be able to teach your children that, you may look at someone who looks differently from you and there are so many similarities also, so to be able to teach our children how can we ask the right questions, how can we kind of tap into what we know fear feels like and how can we teach our children how to just ask questions in terms of trying to learn more. To not be afraid to enter in conversations like that. I think it’s so important for white parents as well.

Host:  I couldn’t agree more. And when we’re talking about what’s most important for parents to do in this moment; how can we challenge our kids to see this issue? What do you personally, want to see changed and as parents, while we’re having these discussions, we’ve got to manage our own emotions and feelings. I myself am a parent of two teens, get choked up just discussing it with my kids. It’s hard to discuss as you said, but it’s vital that we do. So, give us some tips on how best to talk to our children to avoid teaching bias and how we can challenge them in these issues and what you want to see changed.

Dr. Cherestal:  Absolutely. I think learning to manage your emotions is such an important thing for parents to teach their children always. And of course, this is such an emotionally laden conversation for everyone, parents, and children alike. And so for you as a parent to get choked up or anxious or in some way distressed in having this conversation; I think it’s so important to model that it’s okay to be vulnerable. It’s okay to have those feelings and to show your children that if you are watching the news and you’re seeing police brutality play out in front of your eyes or you’re seeing these protests and you’re feeling moved by it; it is okay to cry. Right. It is okay to talk about whatever it is that you’re feeling, whether it’s sad or angry or worried or overwhelmed to be able to put words to those feelings, certainly in and of itself makes them feel more manageable and teaches our children that despite how emotionally challenging these topics are, that they are still safe to talk about and we can still enter into these conversations despite what our emotions are kind of feeling and how intense they are feeling at that moment.

That said, I think it’s so important for parents to educate themselves but then also teach their children that education and educating yourself around issues related to race, it is an ongoing process. It’s not just reading one book or looking at one website. It’s something that we all want to do over time and so we can always want to better educate ourselves and we don’t always have to feel as though that’s going to happen immediately. It’s going to be a process and it’s always going to be an ongoing discussion. And I think for parents, if they also want to be aware of not passing along certain biases that they might have. I think where it really begins is learning to become aware of them. Right? Acknowledging that we all have biases whether we like them or not. And it’s uncomfortable to look at. But there’s no way to prevent passing them along to our children if we as the parents are not aware of them ourselves.

So, if we can be aware of our own biases and try to better understand where they’re coming from, where maybe perhaps we’ve been miseducated and watch our language. Right? Be more mindful of our language. I think all parents are very aware of how quickly children pick up on the language of their parents. So, for us to be more mindful of our biases and being careful, paying careful attention to not using biased language or generalizations in our language, we can certainly model for our children in such a way that helps minimize the chance that we’re passing along any biases to them.

Host:  that’s such a great point Dr. Cherestal. And you are giving us such useable information. Things that we really can take forward to start this conversation and really help our children to see these issues and care about these issues. Now if they want to be involved in these issues, if they want to protest, can you give us some helpful ways we can assist them so they feel like they’re involved and making a difference and in these unprecedented times, where parents are quite nervous about large crowds; if they do want to protest, how should parents address the safety and the importance of social distancing, masks and if they do not want to actually be involved in the physical protest; what else can they do?

Dr. Cherestal:  Sure and so I think for children who want to protest, I think that’s a really amazing and powerful thing. For kids it’s so important to know if they’re going to be protesting making sure that they have an adult with them, that they are not alone, and really managing their safety and making sure that kind of nothing happens to them along the way is so important. That said, I think it’s also so important to keep in mind that children can get involved with this fight and really advocate for change without physically attending a protest at all. So, there are so many organizations that kids can read up on. They can sign petitions. They can reach out to lawmakers and policy makers to advocate for policy changes in a real concerted way. They can make a point to shop at black owned businesses if as a general rule they are really looking to promote social equality. So, there’s so many ways that our kids can get involved and be helpful even without physically attending a protest. But of course, if they want to protest, that’s great.

Of course we have to consider though COVID-19 and how can we manage our personal safety and the safety of our health while gathering in groups like this. And so it’s so important for our young people to know how important it is to keep our masks on, right? Wear gloves. Wash your hands as frequently as possible. Use hand sanitizer and avoid touching your face. Even in a situation that is so heightened in terms of emotionality. Keeping it and paying attention to those things is so crucial. And in these large crowds, can we make sure our young people know to try to stay at the fringes of the groups rather than kind of getting immersed right into the middle of crowds. We really want to make sure that they are managing kind of their personal safety and not contributing to kind of the spread of illness while they’re trying to promote good as well.

And of course, something that a lot of people are considering as they are attending protesting is after the protest is over, going through a period of self-imposed isolation, again, not knowing what you might have been exposed to, just kind of keeping in mind those safeguards afterwards because it’s so important to get involved. We just want to make sure that we are all getting involved as safely as possible.

I also do want to add that when it comes to maintaining safety at these protests, we want to keep in mind COVID-19 and not spreading illness but there are also so many other potential risks that can come to young people at these protests. So, you always want to make sure that you’re not alone, that you are carrying around contact information for someone who know where you are, that’s checking up on you, making sure that you got home safely, that in case anything happens to you, you are carrying around any kind of medical information that might be important to know about you. So again, making sure that kids are, or our young people are safe as they are navigating protesting because there are so many things that could happen.

Host:  Well that’s certainly true and as we wrap up, give us some key points for different age groups. How does the way in which we speak to our kids about race, these issues, Black Lives Matter, the protests, police brutality, everything that we’re seeing; how does that differ as our children grow and go through different stages of understanding and give us your best advice for parents, [00:17:37 blank] ologist, really to help us figure out how we can talk to our kids about race and teach them empathy and compassion so that we can all be involved together.

Dr. Cherestal:  [00:17:49 blank] in which we speak to our children about race and police brutality and the way that all of these issues have led to the protests that we are seeing today. As I mentioned, it will certainly vary based on the age of the child. We want to make sure that we are using developmentally appropriate language to the best of our ability and that we’re speaking in a way that our children can understand. So, the younger the child, the younger children before they reach school age, it’s so important to discuss as early as possible the inherent equality of all people, right? Teaching our children as soon as they understand language that all people are equal and that is so important to speak up whenever you notice that equality is being questioned or threatened.

And as they get older, once they reach school age, once they start reaching adolescence, you want to continue to be mindful of their ability to comprehend the history of the injustices that we’re seeing today. And the complex ways that racial inequalities really exist in so many ways in our society, not just as it relates to police interactions. So, again, as they are getting older, they are more able to understand issues related to race and they are much more able to understand the history and the complexities behind it.

All of that said though, I think it’s so important to stress that we don’t – we as parents, we don’t want to assume that our child is too young to participate in these discussions at all. Kids are more in tuned and perceptive than we sometimes realize. So, for parents, my best advice is to at least start the conversation. Ask them what they’ve heard. What they’ve heard from their friends. What they’ve seen on the news. Even if you think that they aren’t watching, ask those questions anyway. And start that conversation because parents oftentimes are the main signal for safety for their children. And parents model what is safe and important to talk about. And we want to make sure that our children know that we view race and racial equality as something that is safe and important to talk about from a very early age.

Host:  Dr. Cherestal, what a great episode this was. Such an important topic. And an important discussion for parents to have with their children about what we’re seeing in the news and about the emotions that are being triggered and all of this going on. Thank you for such great advice for us today. And that concludes today’s episode of Kids Health Cast. Please remember to subscribe, rate and review this podcast and all the other Weill Cornell Medicine podcasts. For more health tips and updates on the latest medical advancements and breakthroughs please follow us on your social channels. I’m Melanie Cole.