How Can You Can Stay Safe in a World Without Masking
From the Show: Henry Mayo Newhall Hospital - Its Your Health Radio
Summary:
Air Date: 4/1/22
Duration: 10 Minutes
Dr. Bud Lawrence answers questions like "are there still times when you should wear a mask?", "what should you be doing to keep you and your loved ones safe in a 'post-mask world'?", "what can we expect this spring and summer?", and more.
Transcription:
It's Your Health radio, a special podcast series presented by Henry Mayo Newhall Hospital. Here's Melanie Cole.
Melanie Cole. MS (Host): As we enter a new phase of this post-pandemic world that we've been living in, now we're looking at a post-mask world, what can we expect this spring and summer? And what should you be doing to keep yourself and your loved ones safe as we navigate all of these unprecedented things that we've been experiencing really in the last couple of years?
Welcome to It's Your Health Radio with Henry Mayo Newhall Hospital. I'm Melanie Cole. And we're talking with Dr. Bud Lawrence today. He's the Medical Director in the Department of Emergency Medicine at Henry Mayo Newhall Hospital. Dr. Lawrence, we're talking about navigating a post-mask world, and I told you off the air, I wasn't going to do that. I'm somebody who's going to wear a mask. They've been doing it in Asian countries for years, decades. Can you tell us a little bit about what we can expect and what would you as an emergency medicine physician recommend at this time? People still have COVID.
Bud Lawrence, MD: They certainly do. And thank you so much for having me on today to discuss this very important topic. You know, if you if you look around, we still are seeing COVID cases. We had a dip in our COVID positivity rates. But anytime we we pull back the mask mandates even slightly, we do see cases rise. That's absolutely expected. So our case numbers are a little bit higher than they were about a month ago. I do think with the mask mandates rolling back, it's a very prudent discussion to say, "What do we do in this relatively new environment?"
And I think what you said is very important, is that it's when they roll back mask mandates, that doesn't necessarily mean that you cannot wear a mask. It just gives you the option. So, if you felt more comfortable to wear a mask, I think that's a very reasonable path to take. And as you said, there are many countries that for many years had been wearing masks in public. And I think that eventually on some level will become part of the norm in our country as well. I think it also gives the option to not wear a mask. If you feel that a mask is not something that you prefer, I think you have that option as well. That's fairly clear. And I think that it should give individuals the opportunity to really do a deep risk assessment of their personal risk. And if you're somebody who is elderly or has multiple medical problems or your immune system doesn't function like it should, there's no reason why you shouldn't wear a mask, if that's what makes you feel more comfortable and more safe, because as has been shown in the pandemic, the masks definitely do make a difference in terms of transmissibility, both protecting yourself and protecting others.
Melanie Cole. MS (Host): Well, I agree with you. And I think that as it is this personal decision now, and we assess our immune function and whether we think we're somebody at risk, there is also sort of this weird feeling now around it. And it depends, I guess, on where you live. But do you have any advice? I mean, you are an emergency medicine physician. You've had to wear a mask for years and years doing what you do. Do you have any advice for kind of wearing it proudly? I want you to tell people about the itchy factor. I'd like you to talk about the decorative mask factor, just about wearing it and you know, whether or not it's something we should be embarrassed about at this point?
Bud Lawrence, MD: Well, clearly, where we are now, even with the mask mandates coming back, we still wear masks in the emergency department of the hospital. We have not rolled back the mask mandate in hospitals and emergency departments. And a lot of that is due to the fact that we are still treating sick people. We are in a high-risk environment. And I think that is something that probably won't go away for still a while. I think that we really have to get to a different level in this pandemic where it's clearly endemic and not much of an issue for us to roll them back in the hospital.
But listen, I think you're right. It matters sort of your environment where you live socially, whether people find masks to be acceptable, not acceptable or mandatory. And I think each individual person needs to navigate that. I think that you need to navigate your societal pressures, but also more importantly, you need to navigate your personal risk. And if you feel that you're not somebody who would do well without a mask in the sense that you're high risk of getting COVID or, frankly, any other infection, if you look at this last couple of years, we've had very little flu. And a lot of that has to do with wearing masks, washing hands and, frankly, the first year of school not being in session. But if you feel that you are someone who wants to wear a mask, you should be able to wear that mask. I think you should be able to wear it proudly and without any discrimination, just as we try to aim to not be discriminatory in any other area of our lives in our society. I think that's another piece where we should be able to give people the right to make that choice. And if they so choose, they should be able to do that without any type of persecution. I believe strongly that we shouldn't be telling other people what to do, whether it's to wear a mask or not wear a mask when the mask mandate has been rolled back.
Melanie Cole. MS (Host): Wow. Great points, Dr. Lawrence. You're such a good educator. Are all masks created equal? You know, I mentioned itching a little bit. Do you have a favorite mask that you like to wear? Do you just prefer the surgical masks? Is there any difference in these masks?
Bud Lawrence, MD: There are big differences in these masks, both anywhere from gaiters to cloth masks to surgical masks and then N95 type masks. There are certainly differences in how effective they are. There's differences in comfort. I think something that we've learned during COVID is that probably the more uncomfortable your mask is over a longer period of time, the better it works. I mean, that's just a sign that it's working properly. But, you know, for me anyway, our hospital provides a specific purpose-built mask, that are surgical masks built for our facility that are excellent and comfortable. And then when anytime we're going to be involved in a higher risk situation, we would don an N95 mask. Those are the things that are available to us in the hospital.
And I would say as an individual, again with the mask mandate being rolled back and you're somebody who wants to protect yourself, probably anything is better than nothing. Surgical masks, I think, have become much more available now that supply chain issues have been resolved. So I think you can probably find surgical masks pretty easily. And that would be what I would recommend. N95 masks currently might be a little bit of overkill, but again, if you are a person who's in a position where you simply cannot get COVID for fear of your life, an N95 might be a good option for you.
Melanie Cole. MS (Host): Well, I recently went to a concert and it was the first time since the pandemic and it was an arena concert. I saw Genesis for any listeners who are wondering, and I wore an N95 in that situation, because there was 20,000 people inside an arena. So I was definitely kind of on the edge about, you know, that sort of thing. But you're right, and it should be this choice. Now, what are we expecting, Dr. Lawrence, to come up in the spring and the summer? Are we going to start to see an increase? Is there any new variants you want to mention? What are we seeing now?
Bud Lawrence, MD: So as you know, it is just so impossibly challenging to make good predictions, even with really smart people who make computer modeling programs. They're not always correct.
Melanie Cole. MS (Host): But you've been really good with that stuff up til now.
Bud Lawrence, MD: Until now. And this is what I I would expect. So there is a different variant of Omicron that's out there. We're seeing it not only in the UK producing a fair amount of cases, but it is now I believe the dominant strain in the United States as well. So the fact that we already have this strain in the United States, I'm hopeful that we won't see significant increases in cases. Again, this new variant is not necessarily going to hurt you any more than the initial Omicron. That is kind of a good way to think about it, but it is fairly contagious. But, you know, now that most people have had either Omicron or they're fully vaccinated, I'm hopeful that we'll see cases dwindle down, and this becomes endemic, meaning that it's something just like many of these other colds that we get. And possibly, along with our flu vaccine every year, we have a COVID vaccine built into that based on the current variant.
Now, there's always a possibility, we've talked about this before, when you have more viruses on the planet, each of these viral replications could create a mutation that gets us a different strain that literally could take us all the way back to ground zero. I don't see that happening. I'm hopeful that we are heading towards brighter pastures. I think that this country, this world, is kind of "over COVID." I think people from a mental health standpoint, they've sort of really had enough of this. And so I'm really hopeful that we can get to a point where we're able to cleanly and safely move forward. But I think COVID will be with us likely for the long haul forever likely. And we're just going to be able to manage it.
Melanie Cole. MS (Host): And we're just going to be able to manage it. You're exactly right. Do you have any final thoughts you want to leave listeners with about mask-wearing and just really how about keeping ourselves safe and our families safe from all of this stuff? Flu, colds, RSV, all these things that come with the spring and kids in school and germs all around, just give us your best advice.
Bud Lawrence, MD: Well, I think if there's one thing, I think COVID taught us things, but one of the more important things COVID has taught us is that you really probably don't want to be around other people when you're sick. I don't believe we really placed enough emphasis on this before. As you say, other countries used to wear masks routinely. In the United States, if we were sick, we would still go to family gatherings, possibly still go to school or work because, you know, it's "just a cold." And I think that when we look at what we've learned from COVID, I think hopefully people will pay more attention to how contagious not only COVID is, but other viruses, flu, RSV, all these other millions and millions of viruses out there. Hopefully, we can do better as individuals when we are sick to limit the transmission of whatever we have to others. I think that we're much more aware of how that works now. I think we're much more aware of hand-washing, distancing and even mask-wearing.
So I think wearing a mask is very important if you're somebody who, despite the mask mandates coming back, still you feel that you are someone who is very at risk, there's no one out there that says you can't wear a mask. There's no rule, there's no person. And if someone tells you, you can't wear a mask, that's probably not a nice person and you should probably remove yourself from that environment. So I'm very hopeful that as a community and a world, we're more in tune to the things that we have done during COVID to limit transmission of this virus, and we can apply that to other viruses. And I think that'll make things much better for us moving forward.
Melanie Cole. MS (Host): I agree with you. And we have learned so much in the last couple of years, haven't we? Things that we never thought we'd really have to think about since, my goodness, a century ago. We've had to really think about this last couple of years, and you've taught us so much, Dr. Lawrence. You really have taught us so much.
So thank you so much for joining us and sharing your incredible expertise. And for up-to-date information and the latest COVID news, we encourage you to check the Henry Mayo website at henrymayo.com and click on the COVID-19 link at the top of the page. That concludes this episode of It's Your Health Radio with Henry Mayo Newhall Hospital. I'm Melanie Cole. Thanks so much for listening.
It's Your Health radio, a special podcast series presented by Henry Mayo Newhall Hospital. Here's Melanie Cole.
Melanie Cole. MS (Host): As we enter a new phase of this post-pandemic world that we've been living in, now we're looking at a post-mask world, what can we expect this spring and summer? And what should you be doing to keep yourself and your loved ones safe as we navigate all of these unprecedented things that we've been experiencing really in the last couple of years?
Welcome to It's Your Health Radio with Henry Mayo Newhall Hospital. I'm Melanie Cole. And we're talking with Dr. Bud Lawrence today. He's the Medical Director in the Department of Emergency Medicine at Henry Mayo Newhall Hospital. Dr. Lawrence, we're talking about navigating a post-mask world, and I told you off the air, I wasn't going to do that. I'm somebody who's going to wear a mask. They've been doing it in Asian countries for years, decades. Can you tell us a little bit about what we can expect and what would you as an emergency medicine physician recommend at this time? People still have COVID.
Bud Lawrence, MD: They certainly do. And thank you so much for having me on today to discuss this very important topic. You know, if you if you look around, we still are seeing COVID cases. We had a dip in our COVID positivity rates. But anytime we we pull back the mask mandates even slightly, we do see cases rise. That's absolutely expected. So our case numbers are a little bit higher than they were about a month ago. I do think with the mask mandates rolling back, it's a very prudent discussion to say, "What do we do in this relatively new environment?"
And I think what you said is very important, is that it's when they roll back mask mandates, that doesn't necessarily mean that you cannot wear a mask. It just gives you the option. So, if you felt more comfortable to wear a mask, I think that's a very reasonable path to take. And as you said, there are many countries that for many years had been wearing masks in public. And I think that eventually on some level will become part of the norm in our country as well. I think it also gives the option to not wear a mask. If you feel that a mask is not something that you prefer, I think you have that option as well. That's fairly clear. And I think that it should give individuals the opportunity to really do a deep risk assessment of their personal risk. And if you're somebody who is elderly or has multiple medical problems or your immune system doesn't function like it should, there's no reason why you shouldn't wear a mask, if that's what makes you feel more comfortable and more safe, because as has been shown in the pandemic, the masks definitely do make a difference in terms of transmissibility, both protecting yourself and protecting others.
Melanie Cole. MS (Host): Well, I agree with you. And I think that as it is this personal decision now, and we assess our immune function and whether we think we're somebody at risk, there is also sort of this weird feeling now around it. And it depends, I guess, on where you live. But do you have any advice? I mean, you are an emergency medicine physician. You've had to wear a mask for years and years doing what you do. Do you have any advice for kind of wearing it proudly? I want you to tell people about the itchy factor. I'd like you to talk about the decorative mask factor, just about wearing it and you know, whether or not it's something we should be embarrassed about at this point?
Bud Lawrence, MD: Well, clearly, where we are now, even with the mask mandates coming back, we still wear masks in the emergency department of the hospital. We have not rolled back the mask mandate in hospitals and emergency departments. And a lot of that is due to the fact that we are still treating sick people. We are in a high-risk environment. And I think that is something that probably won't go away for still a while. I think that we really have to get to a different level in this pandemic where it's clearly endemic and not much of an issue for us to roll them back in the hospital.
But listen, I think you're right. It matters sort of your environment where you live socially, whether people find masks to be acceptable, not acceptable or mandatory. And I think each individual person needs to navigate that. I think that you need to navigate your societal pressures, but also more importantly, you need to navigate your personal risk. And if you feel that you're not somebody who would do well without a mask in the sense that you're high risk of getting COVID or, frankly, any other infection, if you look at this last couple of years, we've had very little flu. And a lot of that has to do with wearing masks, washing hands and, frankly, the first year of school not being in session. But if you feel that you are someone who wants to wear a mask, you should be able to wear that mask. I think you should be able to wear it proudly and without any discrimination, just as we try to aim to not be discriminatory in any other area of our lives in our society. I think that's another piece where we should be able to give people the right to make that choice. And if they so choose, they should be able to do that without any type of persecution. I believe strongly that we shouldn't be telling other people what to do, whether it's to wear a mask or not wear a mask when the mask mandate has been rolled back.
Melanie Cole. MS (Host): Wow. Great points, Dr. Lawrence. You're such a good educator. Are all masks created equal? You know, I mentioned itching a little bit. Do you have a favorite mask that you like to wear? Do you just prefer the surgical masks? Is there any difference in these masks?
Bud Lawrence, MD: There are big differences in these masks, both anywhere from gaiters to cloth masks to surgical masks and then N95 type masks. There are certainly differences in how effective they are. There's differences in comfort. I think something that we've learned during COVID is that probably the more uncomfortable your mask is over a longer period of time, the better it works. I mean, that's just a sign that it's working properly. But, you know, for me anyway, our hospital provides a specific purpose-built mask, that are surgical masks built for our facility that are excellent and comfortable. And then when anytime we're going to be involved in a higher risk situation, we would don an N95 mask. Those are the things that are available to us in the hospital.
And I would say as an individual, again with the mask mandate being rolled back and you're somebody who wants to protect yourself, probably anything is better than nothing. Surgical masks, I think, have become much more available now that supply chain issues have been resolved. So I think you can probably find surgical masks pretty easily. And that would be what I would recommend. N95 masks currently might be a little bit of overkill, but again, if you are a person who's in a position where you simply cannot get COVID for fear of your life, an N95 might be a good option for you.
Melanie Cole. MS (Host): Well, I recently went to a concert and it was the first time since the pandemic and it was an arena concert. I saw Genesis for any listeners who are wondering, and I wore an N95 in that situation, because there was 20,000 people inside an arena. So I was definitely kind of on the edge about, you know, that sort of thing. But you're right, and it should be this choice. Now, what are we expecting, Dr. Lawrence, to come up in the spring and the summer? Are we going to start to see an increase? Is there any new variants you want to mention? What are we seeing now?
Bud Lawrence, MD: So as you know, it is just so impossibly challenging to make good predictions, even with really smart people who make computer modeling programs. They're not always correct.
Melanie Cole. MS (Host): But you've been really good with that stuff up til now.
Bud Lawrence, MD: Until now. And this is what I I would expect. So there is a different variant of Omicron that's out there. We're seeing it not only in the UK producing a fair amount of cases, but it is now I believe the dominant strain in the United States as well. So the fact that we already have this strain in the United States, I'm hopeful that we won't see significant increases in cases. Again, this new variant is not necessarily going to hurt you any more than the initial Omicron. That is kind of a good way to think about it, but it is fairly contagious. But, you know, now that most people have had either Omicron or they're fully vaccinated, I'm hopeful that we'll see cases dwindle down, and this becomes endemic, meaning that it's something just like many of these other colds that we get. And possibly, along with our flu vaccine every year, we have a COVID vaccine built into that based on the current variant.
Now, there's always a possibility, we've talked about this before, when you have more viruses on the planet, each of these viral replications could create a mutation that gets us a different strain that literally could take us all the way back to ground zero. I don't see that happening. I'm hopeful that we are heading towards brighter pastures. I think that this country, this world, is kind of "over COVID." I think people from a mental health standpoint, they've sort of really had enough of this. And so I'm really hopeful that we can get to a point where we're able to cleanly and safely move forward. But I think COVID will be with us likely for the long haul forever likely. And we're just going to be able to manage it.
Melanie Cole. MS (Host): And we're just going to be able to manage it. You're exactly right. Do you have any final thoughts you want to leave listeners with about mask-wearing and just really how about keeping ourselves safe and our families safe from all of this stuff? Flu, colds, RSV, all these things that come with the spring and kids in school and germs all around, just give us your best advice.
Bud Lawrence, MD: Well, I think if there's one thing, I think COVID taught us things, but one of the more important things COVID has taught us is that you really probably don't want to be around other people when you're sick. I don't believe we really placed enough emphasis on this before. As you say, other countries used to wear masks routinely. In the United States, if we were sick, we would still go to family gatherings, possibly still go to school or work because, you know, it's "just a cold." And I think that when we look at what we've learned from COVID, I think hopefully people will pay more attention to how contagious not only COVID is, but other viruses, flu, RSV, all these other millions and millions of viruses out there. Hopefully, we can do better as individuals when we are sick to limit the transmission of whatever we have to others. I think that we're much more aware of how that works now. I think we're much more aware of hand-washing, distancing and even mask-wearing.
So I think wearing a mask is very important if you're somebody who, despite the mask mandates coming back, still you feel that you are someone who is very at risk, there's no one out there that says you can't wear a mask. There's no rule, there's no person. And if someone tells you, you can't wear a mask, that's probably not a nice person and you should probably remove yourself from that environment. So I'm very hopeful that as a community and a world, we're more in tune to the things that we have done during COVID to limit transmission of this virus, and we can apply that to other viruses. And I think that'll make things much better for us moving forward.
Melanie Cole. MS (Host): I agree with you. And we have learned so much in the last couple of years, haven't we? Things that we never thought we'd really have to think about since, my goodness, a century ago. We've had to really think about this last couple of years, and you've taught us so much, Dr. Lawrence. You really have taught us so much.
So thank you so much for joining us and sharing your incredible expertise. And for up-to-date information and the latest COVID news, we encourage you to check the Henry Mayo website at henrymayo.com and click on the COVID-19 link at the top of the page. That concludes this episode of It's Your Health Radio with Henry Mayo Newhall Hospital. I'm Melanie Cole. Thanks so much for listening.
